Something has surprised me in the reactions to The Next Mormons survey findings and book : While I was prepared for pushback from very orthodox Latter-day Saints who might be unwilling to acknowledge serious retention problems in the U. Rather, bishops, Relief Society presidents, institute teachers, and other local leaders have reached out to express gratitude for nationally representative research that quantifies what they are already seeing in their wards, classes and families.
Unexpectedly, though, some ex-Mormons have been frustrated with the findings. A number of former members have questioned whether the median age for leaving is really And they have especially pushed back on the idea that a majority of those who left the church were not fully committed to it in the first place.
They seem to have left the church later, perhaps in their late 20s and 30s, after serving a mission and marrying in a Latter-day Saint temple and Doing All the Things.
They tithed thousands of dollars, in some cases. Leaving the church cost them relationships, even marriages. Their road out the door was fraught with pain and brokenness. Some have had to fully reconstruct their identity outside of Mormonism. In essence she was saying you are worthless. I said please never say that again, especially to some one who already is afraid, hurt, and incrediable lonely. That is so hurtful. In retrospect she was taught or programmed to say that from the Mormon church.
But this is exactly my mission to help these blind mormons see what harmful things that are still being taught. But please use kindness to the people who do. Wow one minute best friends United by Mormonism.
The next minute I am lonely chaff. Janie Hamai. This made me almost cry with how it was so spot on. My jaw was on the floor. Leaving after 30 years of orthodox Mormonism was heart breaking. Like a toddler compared to everyone else out here. Because I said the exact same things to doubters and leavers. I was so brainwashed and I feel like I was seeing through mud. This is a double standard. Mormons routinely hold lessons speculating as to why we exmos have left.
That speculation always disparages us. Looking back, it seems to be to scare you into compliance. The church causes our believing loved ones to look down on us, pity us, distrust us, and suspect us.
Mormons do not take kindly to criticism against the church, why should exmormons take it on the chin when the church wrongfully smears their character? Leave and just accept of all that? I am glad I am not alone! I am obsessed with reading about the churches history. I used to be more bitter but it just really fascinates me. They sugar coat it, but it totally confirms things they used to hide. I could see justifying stories about looking in a hat and alternate accounts of the first vision, but hiding from your wife that you are married to teenagers?
I think most people are born into the religion of their parents, and others simply jump in the bandwagon in order to belong. When there are mistakes, miscommunication, poor policy, etc. Later in life some members start to properly investigate their religion to validate things in their minds and get answers for their cognitive dissonance. The church creates who you are. It takes so much effort and processing to unravel it all. One who has been a TBM for a long time needs time, resources and energy to put themselves back together under a new paradigm.
It is comparable to being a Madoff client and realizing the whole thing was a fraud. You get your money out but many of your friends and family are still in, and encouraging their children and others to invest their money, time and make major life decisions based on his principles.
When you try to tell them, everyone says leave them alone; they are happy getting their fake statements every month and believing they are doing a good thing ….. Now that people know the truth, Theystill have that same zeal to spread the truth as they know it now. Thank you, John. Sometimes I wish I could leave the Church alone. I look forward to the completion of your book and have no doubt it will be a huge help to many.
One correction: the bullet …………….. Just a thought. You go John! After reading the draft I would certainly buy the book. You address my biggest concern in this chapter, and that is the damage that is done through gaslighting. Maybe gaslighting can be its own chapter. I have friends that have been married to a narcissistic spouse. The same thing happens in the Church. The Church does an amazing job of spinning tales to make the honest truth seeker look like the bad guy.
The honest truth seeker, whether in an organization or a marriage, is open to truth, even the truth that they themselves are part of the problem. A narcissist never takes responsibility for being any part of the problem.
The Church is just like the narcissistic spouse who will never consider the remotest possibility that they may be part of the problem and members believe their tales and minimize and discount the truth seeker. Just my 2 cents worth. Thanks for the opportunity to give feedback. John, Based on just the draft of chapter 1, I would purchase your book. If I were to give any suggestion, I would like to have examples or some helpful analogies that illustrate the damaging effects of gaslighting or maybe have a chapter dedicated to this harmful tactic.
I have friends and family members that are either married to or have been married to narcissistic personalities. I never cease to be amazed at the tales a narcissist will spin to pass full blame to a partner and avoid accepting any responsibility for any problems in the relationship.
The narcissist becomes very skilled at gathering allies, becoming the victim, and getting others to take their side. I see the Church as the narcissistic spouse that gathers allies by spinning tales and making it seem as though the honest truth seeker is the perpetrator. What is heartbreaking is to witness the Church standby and watch as members treat a person struggling with their faith in unchristian ways, especially when they are the cause of the faith crisis in the first place.
Thank you, John, for your desire to write this book. Removing a sense of personal animosity for my choice helped me avoid a lasting feeling of pain and shame and helped me retain some not all friendships and relationships that I would otherwise have lost. Also, understanding that many people find comfort in abdicating their choice making to the organization helps one see that such statements are simply a recitation of phrases an vernacular that is taught by the organization to be used in such scenarios.
Really good stuff. I suspect it could be a useful read for not only those having the faith transition, but for their loved ones, too. Initially, I thought of Naugle as the Pied Piper of doubters, merrily guiding Mormons into digital sin.
The Boy Scouts are a sore spot. He recalls one incident when he and several co-Scouts were playing Go Fish on a camping trip. One of the particularly devout troop leaders, in an apparent geyser of reverence, blustered into their tent. He told the boys that by playing with face cards, they were summoning Satan and told them to go pray for an hour.
President Joseph F. His parents, having left the Church themselves, are supportive. The family felt shunned. I basically did the same, and my younger brother as well. He would rather never return. Naugle estimates that he has processed over 40, requests so far. Sometimes the Church does contact loved ones of people who have put in resignation requests. I probably should have communicated that a little bit better. Not everyone in the ex-Mormon community has requested name removal. Joseph spent a semester at Brigham Young University-Idaho.
I guess you could call them butterflies. Most of the former Mormons I spoke to craved immediate cathartic closure, like Evan Lloyd. By the time Jaimie read it, Josh had been ready to leave the Church for some time. He had reached out to a friend of theirs whom they suspected had already left the Church.
The man had pointed Josh to QuitMormon, so he was ready to put in their requests as soon as Jaimie wanted to leave.
Josh and Jaimie had resigned themselves to helping their children remain in the Church if they wanted to, and they explained their decision to their children in turn. Their eldest daughter, then 11, had already been baptized, and she chose to leave with them. They put in another QuitMormon. When they asked their eight-year-old daughter whether she wanted to remain in the Church, she told her parents that she wanted to experience what her older sister had experienced during her baptism.
Josh and Jaimie froze somewhere between puzzlement and support. The eight-year-old went on. He and Jaimie unfroze, relieved. Jaimie and Josh began to move on from the Church. They no longer went to church or tithed. They watched Game of Thrones — porn shoulders everywhere — without shame. Then Jaimie got a call from a sympathetic friend who is still active in the Church. He also says that canceled records are not accessible to bishops.
Naugle says the Church has only recently begun removing the names of unbaptized children. For a while, he was considering a class action lawsuit.
This cannot be legal. Naugle has encountered other specious bureaucratic roadblocks in his work. Last year, the Church claimed that fraudulent requests for resignation were being submitted to QuitMormon, and Naugle was required to add an identity verification step to his process.
Now clients submit government-issued identification along with their requests. I doubt that it happened.
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